Jump to content
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble
PrinceValorum

Protege5 + Klze = Protege6 What What?

Recommended Posts

Yeah, yeah, this has been a long time coming.

So, how about a bit of story?

 

A long long time ago, my buddy had a silver P5.  It was fully bolted with the FS-DE it came with, and he was toying where to go next.  He didn't want to fool around with the reliability issues of a turbo on his DD, and what started off as a joke (filling up his inbox with PGT vids) quickly became reality.  He was one of the first few to complete his swap, and I couldn't have been more excited.

 

This is a quote from his old thread.

 

After we got the tach sorted out I did a 2nd gear pull to 5.5k rpm and it was very fun. :)

 

Dude, that's like the understatement of the century. This thing freaking rips. I have no other way to describe it, it revs like a bike, it pulls insane, and it sounds absolutely down right nasty. After 4k it gets this really high strung rasp in the exhaust, and holy cow, it's just a blast. That, with the coilovers, the rear sway (all equal no body roll), the awesome tires, the straight through exhaust, the super stiff mounts, the Evo seats and now the KL, it's easily one of the most fun driving (passenger) experiences I've had. I was giggling like a 12 year old girl the entire time. I'll bring my video cam after everything gets buttoned up and pretty, and I'll try to make a vid that does it justice... which is a tall order.

 
Ahh, it's a bit obvious I was sort of completely in love with it...
 
 
Fast forward, and his silver P5 got cancer, and he parted it out.   :(
 
Then he got an absolutely immaculate black P5 from GA.  Zero rust, just looks like it rolled out of a time capsule.  He went to work on the second swap, but after encountering numerous complications (neither of us know squat about wiring), threw in the towel.  I ended up buying it from him, and the day I brought it home, May 14, 2013, was the best day of my life.
 
 
img-383474-1-IMG_0793_zps06347a2c.jpg
 
So now, it's sat in my garage for over a year while I struggled to think what I'd do with the wiring.  I think the best route to go is to just do it and learn as I go, instead of trying to get someone else to do it.  That way I should have a better understanding and working knowledge should something go wrong in the future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice man, I remember the old P5, it was so cool :D

I hope you get yours running, time will show, just don't give up!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Doing it yourself is better for understanding the problems, but also gives you the opportunity to do it like the way it left the factory.

If you pay someone they often don't want to spend the time.

 

The most annoying thing about splicing harnesses together is having to extend wires if components are physically in different places. Refitting firewall grommets etc. In your case getting the tacho to work with a 6cyl motor instead of 4.

 

I'd start by pulling the harness out and laying it on the floor. Overlay the KLZE engine harness to give you an idea of the lengths and go from there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Use crimp connectors in the engine bay next to anything hot instead of solder.  Use solder inside the cabin all day but in the engine bay it's more prone to vibration and heat cycles and fractures.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I disagree, if you are having problems with soldered joints in the engine bay you are doing something wrong. There are some situations where soldering is inappropriate though.

 

I've work in the electronics industry and crimped connectors are best, but they have to be done properly. I've seen crimped connectors done in such a way that would make you cringe.

Use the correct crimp tool and preferably don't use insulated crimps when using single lug terminals. Use heat shrink or the glued and non glued type to insulate the uninsulated crimps.

 

Most of what you would be doing is crimping new tabs and putting them into the factory Mazda tab housings as well as joining wires to each other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I appreciate the input, guys. I'm not sure how much splicing I'm going to be doing this time around.

How my buddy ran his in the past, he ended up using two ECUs. The P5 ecu runs the body electronics, as far as all of the lights, and the dash. Then the KL ecu runs the motor. It's probably not ideal, but I think it required the least rewiring. He used a Dakota Digital adapter to run his factory 4cyl tach off of the KL.

I plan to copy that setup. At this point, I've scaled back my plans greatly just to get it going. I wanted to to everything in one go, but it was just so overwhelming that I sat immobilized for a year. I'll get it going with the VAF and KL ecu and then have something to drive while I sell the MS6 and my pickup.

The plan is to get a 3rd gen 4Runner then, and drive that during the winters, and work on optimizing this swap, and getting the MegaSquirt online. I have high hopes for this one, and I think I'm going to redefine OCD with this car. I've been putting cardboard on top of my jack stands as padding for the underbody, for instance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With as nice as your project videos are why don't you record this stuff and make some youtube videos?  I'm sure you could produce much better videos than I can.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly I don't think it's worth my time to make videos for something that would be relevant to a handful of people worldwide, you know? I'll post pictures and everything else, but video production takes a lot of time. Especially when you're a perfectionist.

However, I am looking forward to making a very awesome video once it's done. It'll be like the one I did for my buddy's, but version 2.0.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I spent the weekend moving my younger sister to Boston for school. What a weird feeling.

Before I left, I made a bit of progress. Several months ago I was worried that my motor wasn't as advertised (my buddy bought a "rebuilt" trans from the same seller and after selling it himself, found out that it wasn't so rebuilt), and did a leakdown test and pulled the valve covers to confirm the KL-31 cams and heads. Turns out everything checks out (haven't looked at the piston) and the leakdown numbers were good.

I'd left things apart, however, and it was time to get it buttoned back up. I forewent replacing the timing belt at this time. It was recently replaced during the PO's rebuild, but I wanted to install my new Kevlar belt. I don't have wrenches big enough to hold the cams aligned while the belt is off. When I asked about it on FB, the PT guys said it would be fine and that the cams wouldn't move. Not trusting that to be the case, especially with the Interprep valve springs installed, I decided to leave it until later.

My concern with the valve cover gaskets was that they had a bit of crustiness on them. I think it's just aluminum oxidation from the heads, so in an effort to non-destructively remove it, I applied fresh motor oil with my finger and scrubbed it a bit with a nylon brush before wiping it gently with a paper towel.

IMG_20140806_135637_zpsp4iqnkbw.jpg

Oh yeah, that seal is looking fresh!

IMG_20140806_135631_zps3hq9omas.jpg

I carefully scraped the mating surfaces on the heads with a sharp knife to remove the oxidation buildup, and wiped it down compulsively with brake cleaner. While it felt completely smooth to the touch, it doesn't look like it would be.

IMG_20140806_162451_zpsuiu5rnri.jpg

Other than that, I can't really say that I've seen a cleaner motor before.

IMG_20140806_132947_zpsn9sjoll6.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well that doesn't make me feel like Chloe's KL was original now.  Probably rebuilt but still really clean job on the internals.  Dem 31 cams.  Delicious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Make sure you swap those cam springs when you have the chanse!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gotcha, thanks. I remember reading about his post on that quite a while ago. I couldn't remember what it was called.

The next order of business was to reinstall the IM. I planned to also include the phen spacers that I'd picked up from my friend. I was under the impression that I had two sets of IM gaskets awaiting my unskilled touch, but I was mistaken, and decided that this upgrade could also wait for the refresh that would include the other goodies.

To my disappointment, I found some oil in the intake ports. While certainly nothing horrendous, all kinds OCD alarm bells were going off at this point, and I cleaned out what my fingers could reach, armed with paper towels soaked with brake cleaner.

IMG_20140807_195802_zpsehy1ezhn.jpg

I started to wonder how this happened, and I initially suspected the PCV valve was responsible for this dirty work. After looking inside the IM via the TB, it appears that it isn't the culprit in this case.

IMG_20140807_195737_zpsdngs8oe7.jpg

Having plenty of time on the drive out to Boston, I did some research and discovered this excellent post on the SR20 forum.

http://www.sr20-forum.com/information-library/34413-crank-case-ventilation-fully-explained-naturally-aspirated-edition.html

After digesting it, I now feel that the exhaust venturi is my best option for this build. I'd like to keep the motor as clean as possible, while also keeping it as simple as possible (which rules out a mechanical or electrical vacuum pump). I had a hard time finding much information about N/A applications, since it seems to be a more common modification with the forced induction crowd. It should also offer a modest performance increase, in theory.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's the biggest and most expensive puzzle I've attempted...

IMG_20140813_200836_zpsvokhf7ea.jpg

Got some more work done tonight. I took all of the parts out of the car and thoroughly vacuumed it, which it needed after some rodents took up refuge in the darker corners.

Unfortunately I lost one of the feet in the old studio somehow for the passenger Recaro that fit the Protege. So it looks like for now I'll be riding solo. The car came with Corbeau seat sliders, but the rails are significantly narrower than the Recaros, so I'd have to make an adapter to fit it. And they aren't cut for 5 point harnesses....

I got the accessory belts reinstalled on the motor and continued Operation Simplicity. This was one bundle of wires I removed that the PO had added for gauges and whatnot. I'll be adding it back eventually, but for the sake of getting it running, I'm stripping everything back to the bare minimum.

IMG_20140813_231738_zpsuxiqrxzq.jpg

Several things on the motor are unplugged, and I have little to no idea where they go. I'm hoping the community can help out here.

For starters, I labeled the plug wires when I removed them to check the cams, but that was probably a year ago now, and I don't remember if I labeled the cylinders in the order that the Haynes manual did, or not. And their diagram for the distributor doesn't seem to match up at all. Is the ZE different?

I noticed there are actually numbers cast into the housing after I took the picture, but they don't correspond, either.

IMG_20140813_233024_zpsncc4ytnw.jpg

Here's what the manual says. How are you supposed to tell which side is which?

IMG_20140813_233224_zpsi2bcb5zr.jpg

And finally, any idea where these hoses go? Does this go to the brake booster?

IMG_20140813_233406_zpslrad3rjz.jpg

No idea, it's a vacuum line of some sort. Directly after the throttle body.

IMG_20140813_233422_zpsx36oyvha.jpg

Another vacuum line, I assume. It's at the opposite end of the IM.

IMG_20140813_233434_zpsrg0gjud9.jpg

I'm guessing this goes to the intake piping to draw vacuum under WOT? It's from the breather on both valve covers.

IMG_20140813_233510_zpsigqm07gw.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you're using the ZE disty, yes, the cap is setup different (firing order is the same, but for some reason the plug routing in the cap is all criss-crossed).  Follow the numbering on the cap.

 

Yes, that's the booster line.

 

The vac on the VRIS runner is for the VRIS vacuum chambers IIRC.  You'll figure out where they all go, or just check a diagram.  It really doesn't matter which one you use, they are all on the manifold hence should see the same pressure.

 

Also, that last pic makes it look like you have a pinky ring (hose clamp?).

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Awesome stuff! That looks so fun! Takes me back to the KLZE swap and days spendt wrenching for more powah:D

For the plugs, this is how its connected on my car:

post-8310-0-55997600-1408004560_thumb.pn

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Awesome, thanks for the input guys!

Snailman, unfortunately the guy who I got the motor from deleted the VRIS and all of those vacuum lines because he was going to spray. I found out after I'd driven to Wisconsin to pick it up. I wasn't very happy. I think I'll keep it how it is so that it's simpler currently, with less lines to worry about. I plan to get a G4 mani down the road though, and do it properly.

No pinky ring, just coincidental alignment! :P

Did you use a non-ZE distributor, Zep?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I use a DE disty, and so are you from the looks of it. The ZE disty has a 7th connector for the external coil.
But if your squirting, you should run distributorless.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, thanks, Zep. It should be the KL34 disty, I believe. I have some good updates when I get to a computer. The internet at home is down, so it sucks doing everything on my phone.

What are these things? I noticed several when I pulled the harness from my 626 for DJ, and they would explain some of the "mystery connectors" in my harness for the KL.

IMG_20140814_161528_zpsd6jlowhl.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm haven't seen a connector like that before.  If you look in the back of the wiring diagram booklet in the "common connectors" book you can probably find it.  That's a very unique looking connector.  If I had to guess I'd say it was DLC related.

 

If you aren't going to have the VRIS hooked up then cap that VRIS vacuum hose.  You're also going to run into other VRIS delete related issues with vacuum routing.  Recommend finding some "T" vacuum connectors.  You're probably going to have to T some stuff into the throttle body instead like purge solenoid.  When you get it all back together you're going to have a long tube come off that purge solenoid and you'll be asking yourself where the hell does this go.  It goes into the VRIS system (depending on year).  This is actually what gives VRIS the extra oomph of power.  It's vapor and air consolidating in the VRIS sections of the intake manifold.  So you get a longer air chamber pathway for torque plus a bit of fuel vapor and voila you're off to the races.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×