Cauzindrama

Timing *****urgent Advice Needed*****

22 posts in this topic

Im replacing the timing belt. I got the new one on and thought i had everything lined up but.....Take a look at the these timing marks .....do they look like they both are a little low....The engine is TDC.....I NEED SOME FEEDBACK QUICK!!!!!!!

img-332292-1-20120219002243196.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah they are both 1 tooth too low if you're at TDC. With the naked eye it looks really close but with the magic of Photoshop it becomes obvious how much 1 tooth off actually is.

img-332294-1-IncorrectCamTiming.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

im glad i stoppped....i almost kept assembling ...thanks DJ .....This is something thats goin to have to wait til the daylight....dont think the nieghbors would like me out there swearing and throwing wrenches right about now...lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're really close though. Mind posting up a tutorial on what to do if you get stuck in this situation? Would be a great starting point for a tutorial. Take more pics along the way. We might have a tutorial contest this year with lots of nice prizes. As long as you're in the position to make a tutorial that can be entered I highly recommend you do it. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It shouldn't have slack at the top like that. I didn't actually work on the project when my friend replaced his while swapping FP's in his protege, but I remember watching them do it, and he bolted it back in like that, and with the timing marks too low like you had, and it ran, but not that well. He ran it like that for a few months. It idled like it had some lumpy cams and got worse MPG's and didn't develop full power. He thought it would be "close enough" but obviously, there's only right and wrong with timing, lol. He finally got it right after the third time, haha.

IIRC they used wrenches on the camshafts to hold them in position. Since the valve springs want to rotate the cams, I think they started with them a bit higher than they needed, and it ended up being right when they got it on. I remember it being a bit of an ordeal. They tried to zip tie the wrenches together, but there was too much slack. A C clamp might work better if you're by yourself. Make sure the wrenches don't contact and mar the surface where the valve cover gasket seals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In order to take out the horizontal slack you'd have to move the cam gears farther away from each other. Since you can't do that my only guess is the belt itself is to blame. I've never changed out a timing belt either. If I got to that stage and saw that then I'd be asking the same question. I've got no idea what to do for that. Good video though and you've got everything set correctly at this point. Hopefully someone with experience will jump in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In order to take out the horizontal slack you'd have to move the cam gears farther away from each other. Since you can't do that my only guess is the belt itself is to blame. Good video though and you've got everything set correctly at this point.

You take the slack out with the tensioners, not by moving the cams farther apart...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I watched the video and was thinking to myself the whole time "is the tensioner spring in?" then you said it isn't in yet. I have done a few timing belts on Mazdas and they are a bitch to get perfect. But you'll get it, don't despair!

With your tensioner spring not installed yet, pull some of that slack out of the top towards the firewall cam. You may need to rotate the cam gear just a bit to get the TB teeth to line up. Then the spring will take the slack out when you install it. It's okay if a few of the gears move a little, as long as everything lines up again when the belt is on. And when you think it's on there right, rotate the crank at least 3 times to make sure all the marks line up. (I am paranoid so I rotated my crank 6 or 7 times. Then 6 or 7 more times the next day. heh-heh).

I recall using some wrenches clamped together like Prince said (he was with us) but that was for a Miata motor. The cams would slip when we got the belt on one gear so we used two big wrenches, one for each cam, and used a c-clamp to hold them firmly together. Then we got the TB on without it slipping.

Try all these are report back. You're almost done, buddy. Doing a good job.

img-332325-1-holdcams.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you everyone for all the help. . . . Turns out everything was fine . As soon as I put the spring on the tensioner and move the crank back and forth a bit everything lined right up and was tight all around.

The best way I got it all to line up was

Place the crank at technology for #1 cylinder

Get the cams as closed to the timing marks as u can, (you wont get them right on because they will want to roll just a bit because the valves are pushed down just a bit at the right mark.)

So I placed the timing belt on the crank gear and rout it up to the exhaust timing gear.

Then set the exhaust came gear so it will allow the belt to line up and alota that the timing mark is at the 9 o'clock mark. ( hint: the driverside of the camshafts have a slot. A way that you can tell the gear is properly positioned is that the slot is completely vertical.)

Once you have it in it proper position you need to lock it in place. (I did this by using vice grips and lightly clamping the shaft with the vice grips leaning on the head)

Now you need to line up the intake by rotatin it until the timing marks line up and lock it in place using the same method. (Take the timing belt off the crank and use it to make sure the came gear are aligned properly by placing it over the two gears.)

If you've made sure that the slots are both vertical on both camshafts and the crank gear was in the proper spot when aligning the exhaust gear you should be able to slip the belt over the gears.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Place the crank at technology for #1 cylinder

Posted from your iPhone?

Awesome to hear it worked out. I'm going to have to do it for my rebuild so who knows I might just need your help. I love this site.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LMAO...Yea was on my Droid...My girl was on the PC.

Here is another video and @ the 50-60 sec mark you can see the slots I speak of.

And a little sunntin extra..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know you already answered your own question and brilliantly I might add but I made this video before you posted the answer. I stepped out during the head removal to make a short video of the answer. Didn't know you'd post a video of it so now YouTube has 2 videos on it. Yours is much better though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like you've found the answer you need. When I did our belt back on Christmas eve (yeah, it broke right after I started it up to goto a dinner party in the driveway fortunately) after I had the piston #1 at TDC I used two large wrenches to hold the camshafts in place. I also had them off 1 tooth so I was able to use the intake cam to pop it onto the exhaust cam. It's a bit tricky but it worked and kept timing.

Here's what my belt looked like...guess I should of changed it back at 130k when I had the new one lol.

img-332501-1-374625_2641872458238_1598373568_2417934_851035616_n.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

right so im doing this right now (timing belt) but im not actually changing it im changing head gasket and have to go through this first silly me didnt mark any of the cams though when i was taking it apart so decided i had no other choice but to reset it back to tdc done that including dizzie but now my car wont start please help me im getting so frustrated what i need to know is does the crank shaft have to be set to tdc because i have a gauge on my lower timing cover with t and 10 on and can work out what to put it on also i cant get the crankshaft pulley of as i dont have an air gun if one of you could turn your crank shaft by hand and get i and e aligned and tell me what the mark on the crank shaft pulley is pointing to on the gauge that would be great

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had trouble with what I thought was timing because car didn't start cold, turns out it was the ECT, unplug that and try starting...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I watched the video and was thinking to myself the whole time "is the tensioner spring in?" then you said it isn't in yet. I have done a few timing belts on Mazdas and they are a bitch to get perfect. But you'll get it, don't despair!

With your tensioner spring not installed yet, pull some of that slack out of the top towards the firewall cam. You may need to rotate the cam gear just a bit to get the TB teeth to line up. Then the spring will take the slack out when you install it. It's okay if a few of the gears move a little, as long as everything lines up again when the belt is on. And when you think it's on there right, rotate the crank at least 3 times to make sure all the marks line up. (I am paranoid so I rotated my crank 6 or 7 times. Then 6 or 7 more times the next day. heh-heh).

I recall using some wrenches clamped together like Prince said (he was with us) but that was for a Miata motor. The cams would slip when we got the belt on one gear so we used two big wrenches, one for each cam, and used a c-clamp to hold them firmly together. Then we got the TB on without it slipping.

Try all these are report back. You're almost done, buddy. Doing a good job.

img-332325-1-holdcams.jpg

Does anyone know what size wrench will fit on the cam shafts? I am in the middle of changing my timing belt and I am having trouble holding my cams because my adjustable wrenches are too bulky. Anyone know what size wrench will fit?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm pretty sure it's 1"

I think that would probably work too, I ended up getting a 24mm and that worked well. I went with metric since everthing else in the car is metric.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah I've been finding myself relying more on the metric measurements. They are so much easier to work with. What's between 11mm and 13mm? What between 3/4" and 1". Metric is a no brainer and when you're frustrated and throwing wrenches you don't want to think, you just want to get a wrench on it and bust it loose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now