ihone

2.5L Kl Protege5 Swap

115 posts in this topic

Hello all. Been using this site for some much needed information lately - my project has come to a close .....almost.

My last issue is something that keeps me from calling it "done" as far as the initial phase goes.

I've got the 2.5 KLDE with a GF4A-EL ATX trans from a 626/mx6. I've gotten the ECU and TCM all pinned out and everything works great - except one major detail.

While driving it, it will not shift from 2nd gear to 3rd. Nor will it go into O/D. Now....this trans was tested good, so I don't doubt the seller. I've also replaced the 2-3 and 3-4 solenoids. I've tested voltage coming out of the TCM that is on the control harness connected to the Transmission valve body - all voltages were within spec and in the correct state while driving. I did have a TPS error, but wouldn't think that'd make it not shift - because it does make it shift from 1-2. The HOLD light is NOT flashing, nor is the O/D off light. Everything seems to check as normal or that it's ok.

The only parts that i have messed with would be in the valve body. I was going to put a Transgo shiftkit in it, but noticed it was the wrong kit. While I had the valvebody apart - I noticed some of the gasketry was very brittle and wouldn't take much to break.....as a matter of fact - there were a few flakes that came off of it and made me wonder something. Could the fact that those gaskets are so brittle and had chipped/flaked off cause this? Another thing that makes me wonder about the gasketry in there is that as soon as I removed the pan to replace the solenoids in the valve body pan - about 2-3 quarts of ATF came streaming out. Should there be that much residual fluid just floating around in the bottom of that case? Or - does that say that there's a serious leak somewhere inside that area the pan covers (valve body, valve body to case?).

Just thought i'd run this past you guys/gals - because I haven't gotten much response on the other boards I'm frequenting for the info.

Thanks and have a terriffic day!

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Don't take this the wrong way but you probably won't get many responses as we aren't mechanics and the ATX valve body is a mystery to most people that don't work on cars on a regular basis. We really need more info on the ATX valve body from a repair viewpoint so your perspectives on your swap will be invaluable in itself. Please post up as much as you can/want and help others. I can post up anything you need from the factory manual to help out.

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I'll do exactly that then. Any info I get, or results from swapping parts, pieces, etc - I'll give the end-result of each piece to help those with the ATX.

Personally - I installed the ATX because of my knee (years of motocross racing has my knees in shambles.....), but as of late - I'm considering just swapping it out for a MTX and finding some sort of an assist for the clutch engagement. Know what I mean?

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I'm considering just swapping it out for a MTX and finding some sort of an assist for the clutch engagement. Know what I mean?

That's what I've always considered doing should I loose the use of my leg. There have to be options out there.

And some motivation to get you going. ;)

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Yes, the transmission is very sensitive to the pressures of the tiny passages in the valve body; those passages are like electrical circuits...if you start leaking fluid, it's like someone shorting part of your circuit. You don't generate adequate pressure to actuate the shift solenoid, because the fluid is leaking to an adjacent passage.

Is it the issue in your case? It's hard to say, but it's a strong possibility. Third and 4th gear both depend in part on the same shift solenoid, and it won't move the piston to complete the shift without the right control pressure.

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I'm taking it in baby-steps honestly. Today will be another of those steps to further see what the problem could be.

Got the Valvebody gasket kit coming in today, which included all gasketry. I'm also looking to get a Transgo Shiftkit that will also replace some of the pistons, springs, and seals inside the valve body. In the shift kit it also gives instructions on which fluid circuit paths inside the valvebody to cut, fill, and modify the plates between passages in order to get the best flow possible.

It runs like a scalded dog 1st to second (very much an upgrade considering the old tired FS I came from, before blowing 2 holes in the block). Now to get it up to speed in order to really feel comfortable driving it on a daily basis.....that'll be the next step.

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and Lewis's P5 is a joy to behold! That thing makes me wanna get my car done....well - that and the fact that the Saab 9-3 I'm driving now has no tunes.......THAT'S KILLIN ME~!!!!

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update: I put the gasketry into the valvebody lastnight. No go. Still wouldn't shift past 2nd gear.....

Something I noticed though while driving it around. starting from a dead stop - 1st gear - it'll accel just fine. Rolling into 2nd gear strong (just putting, not pushing her) and it locks into 2nd very quickly. It won't shift to 3rd, but I'm noticing that somewhere around 40 mph in 2nd - it seems to find a small "shift" or very slight decrease in gearing - because the engine drops maybe 200 rpm, and I can feel it with the "seat dyno" when it does this. Is there a "lockup" signal in 2nd gear? And finally - could overdrive actually be engaging early? As in - 1-2-OD? But since it's not in 3rd - it's not utilizing the gearing for 3rd, it's using 2nd?

Just some ideas.

Others I still have are maybe the TCM, I still have a code for the TPS that pops up, and some "reduced torque signal 2" code.

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I'm at my last straw with this. I'm about 400 bucks short of saying "fuggit....do a mt swap".

found all the stuff though that I'll need:

g25m-r trans - 150

shifter ass'y/hydraulic line/cylinders/linkage/etc - 150 from complete donor car.

now....for a clutch....

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That sucks sorry your work hasn't panned out. If you do the swap please document it. Don't think we have a really good article with images for a manual conversion yet. Damn good pricing on the parts though.

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clutch is on the way. 100 smackers from ebay (got great reviews)

trans is to be pulled saturday = 180 (trans, flywheel, and starter)

M/T goodies to be pulled saturday from MazMax (they have an '01 Protege M/t that's totalled in the ass-end.) = 150.

question: am I going to need a different intermediate/jack shaft for my passenger side axle?

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reading from the Ford books, the trans rebuild guides, and from independent entities that have tested this transmission over and over again to make it better - the TCM does not look for any sort of resistance, or get any feedback from any of the solenoids in the valving. It just sends 14.2'ish volts to the shifting solenoids, 5v to the pump/lockup/tcc, and uses the input/turbine speed sensor to tell how fast the trans is spinning (kinda like rpm). Also uses the VSS from the trans to drive the speedo signal.

Only one that may in fact toss up a CEL is the input/turbine speed sensor because it just flat out won't be giving any feedback.

pics of lastnight's adventure....

img-330235-1-TexasCity-LeagueCity-20120119-00091.jpg

img-330235-2-TexasCity-LeagueCity-20120119-00090.jpg

img-330235-3-TexasCity-LeagueCity-20120119-00088.jpg

img-330235-4-TexasCity-LeagueCity-20120119-00086.jpg

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That will be sweet once you get the manual. I emailed my buddy Evan to see if he could help you, but then saw he was already helping you on 247. Can't wait to see how this turns out! I'm really in love with the whole KL P5 combo.

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I realize I've failed to keep this thread updated - and many apologies for that.

How she sits now:

KL swap - done

MTX swap w/ larger master/slave cyl's - done. (larger for less stress on the knee)

Now riding on Mazdaspeed6 wheels (they've gone from yellow to green to orange to bronze to black....and finally have come to a rest polished)

Full Tein Basic Damper (for a PGT) coilover setup

and finally..... she's boosted! 8 psi from the usual ebay kit for a KLDE. Haven't dyno'd it yet, but it rapes unsuspecting victims.....within reason, that is.

Pics:

575601_659304897420301_337787474_n_zpsef

IMG_0182_zps5bb24dbe.jpg

IMG_0141_zps1b43ebf6.jpg

IMG_0136_zps1d4f1c6e.jpg

IMG_0130-Copy_zps3c0db73f.jpg

Got some love out at Import FaceOff

p5_IFO_zps920c7be2.jpg

p5_IFO2_zps519a810b.jpg

IFO-hoodoff_zps9b0b6dd3.jpg

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Awesome! I thought Evan was going to be the only one with a turbo KL P5, but you beat him at his own game!

I actually have his project that he sold now, so I should probably get back out into the garage and get working on it! I'm sure I'll have questions for you guys with the wiring. :/

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I have all manuals in electronic form - and I'm not on an episode of "Hoarders".....so it's all yours if you need them.

I also have a cross-sheet that shows my connections I made for basic necessities to run.

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That would be awesome if we could host them and have a section for KL swaps since this motor seems to be finding new life in other platforms, while the 626 fades out.

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you're the one that got Evan's P5 & 1/2 eh?

I saw him selling all his stuff on PT, and a guy here in Baytown (about 10 miles away) actually bought the engine/trans.

Thanks on the wheels. It was a LOT of work, and being that you normally don't like the MS6 wheels, you really seem to like them on the P5 (whichever color I did them in....lol). It took a LOT of work (did I say that already?). Sanded down with 220 grit (dry), then all wet 360, 400, 600, 800, 1000, 1500. Then - hit them with a polishing wheel with black cutting compound, then brown tripoli compound, then finally a final polish with white(fine) polishing rouge. Top it all off with about 5 coats of wax to protect it (because I'm not clearcoating these.....they'll turn yellow) and roll the f*ck out!

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Yea, generally i cant stand the MS6 wheels. I really didnt even like the MS3 wheels i was running. But the Protege and Protege5's are one car that they just seem made for. Very proper!

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Yep, she's in the garage now without a motor or seats, lol.

He mentioned a guy in Texas was talking about getting the motor. I saw it in person and it was clean as could be. I'm pretty sure that was the one where when he popped the valve covers we were like "Omg, there's no way this motor has more than 20k miles." Everything was barely light gold inside! Do you know what it's going in?

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