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bobtheo

Boost On A Automatic

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if i were to setup a turbo on my 2.0, would the autofailmatic hold up to it if i drove regularly (i baby this car aka i slowly get up to speed) or would it make too much power and blow the trasmission up? i want the turbo mostly for the mpgs cause i know if a full size truck can get 30 mpg with two of them i can get better mileage too. and another question if i just setup the turbo without the forged parts could i avoid melting the motor running 2-3 psi for awhile?

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A turbo won't help you with mpg's. It's possible to get alright mpg's despite having a turbo, not because you have one.

A turbo essentially is a highly glorified air pump. It forces more air into the combustion chamber and in order to accomodate that, the computer adds more fuel and you get more power. As you can see, this doesn't really lend to gaining mpg's.

A correctly tuned turbo setup could safely run 2-3 psi on an FS-DE.

The part that kills the autos is the excess heat. I'm sure you could nuke one with enough power, outright pretty easily, but heat kills them over time.

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A turbo won't help you with mpg's. It's possible to get alright mpg's despite having a turbo, not because you have one.

A turbo essentially is a highly glorified air pump. It forces more air into the combustion chamber and in order to accomodate that, the computer adds more fuel and you get more power. As you can see, this doesn't really lend to gaining mpg's.

A correctly tuned turbo setup could safely run 2-3 psi on an FS-DE.

The part that kills the autos is the excess heat. I'm sure you could nuke one with enough power, outright pretty easily, but heat kills them over time.

so i could run one and not really worry bout blowing up the auto with a addon and when you said "

A correctly tuned turbo setup could safely run 2-3 psi on an FS-DE." i can run it without forged parts?

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I think it would definitely shorten the life of the auto. A manual would be able to handle it no sweat, and with a good tune, the motor could handle it. But I'm sure you know, the autos have a reputation of blowing up under stock power. How much money do you have to save in increased fuel efficiency to still come out ahead after rebuilding your trans? Just some things to think about. ;)

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I'm by far not a turbo expert. I've done research into it, but ive always come out just thinking hellll nooo (personally).

If you want to do a turbo for the mileage, your doing it for all the wrong reasons IMO. I imagine, since you won't be whaling on it, Youll actually have to purchase smaller sized turbos that spool at low RPM's in order to get the fuel economy benefits, I imagine low RPM spooling. Your also talking custom ecu, tuning the AFR, ideally the leaner you can safley run it, the better the gas mileage. But your actually taking the most difficult route for better fuel mileage. The FS-DE is already pretty damn good, I've seen alot of members get up to 32-34 range.

As far as things you can do you have alot of options first should be make sure your car is up to date on all maintenance. (all this can easily be done cheaply)

1) Low cost Maintenance (With this alone you should be able to get to high 20 mpg's)

-new Sparkplugs (never by platinum tipped, always go iridium and swap them at appropriate intervals, fouled sparks kill mileage),

-Make sure all the spark wires are good

-fresh battery,

-fresh fuel filter,

-no codes in general, especially from bad O2 sensors

-Fresh air filter

-High quality Synthetic Engine oil, Mobile 1, Amsoil, (NEVER Castrol or Penzoil, they lie about synthetic they are more mixes than they are true synthetic)

-Also run thinner oil, 0W-30 (but be wise if you live somewhere extremely cold get the right oils for your enviroment) 0W-30 can give you a 1-2% improvement in fuel economy alone.

-High quality oil filter, dont use frams, they are practically cardboard

-Also use high quality synthetic transmission fluid again Amsoil etc

-Do a seafoam treatment

-Make sure tire pressure is HIGH, the owners manual says 32-30, based on the condition and Max PSI of your tires, you can often bump that by a factor of 10PSI and get much better mileage.

2) Transmission, since you have a auto, make sure you have a transmission cooler, transmission coolers are known for auto's to give noticeable gains in fuel economy.

If you still want to turbo, this is an absolute MUST HAVE!

3) Weight reduction, more weight = more work for your engine.

-Remove that junk from the cabin & trunk, just keep your essentials, spare oil, first aid kit, spare coolant, spare tire etc.

-Some people go extreme and rip out interiors, but I like being able to hear myself think when I'm driving so I pass on that, but to each his own.

-Reduce rotating mass, rotating mass has huge impacts on fuel economy. Get some small light weight wheels, that are aerodynamic too. (a lot of the newer civics and cars have almost flat wheels, to help improve mileage by reducing drag)

3) Aerodynamics

The guys over at eco-modder are insanely good at modding for aerodynamics, I've seen them get gasoline honda civics past 60mpg, making a prius look like a poser when it comes to real world MPG's.

So again flat walled, light weight wheels

Modify your front end to flaten it out and make it more aerodynamic,

big_air_dam.jpg

-Or you can also panel the bottom of your car to smooth our airflow traveling underneath it.

-Aerodynamic side skirts (like nascar, your car should hug the ground)

4) driving habits is another big thing, slower on the highway, slower between stoplights, never jump on the gas.

I'm sure even with an auto if you went all out you could easily 40mpg. If you do all of that basic maintenance along with running low friction oil I'd be very surprised if you didn't get into high 20 mpg's.

And well if u want speed, just get a turbo :P

post-15320-0-43184100-1312935176_thumb.j

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couldn't have said it better.

perfect gas mileage tips write up.

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well im gonna go for it, i know a couple of cheaper setups i could try and of course i know a couple of thing about the autos that i can work it it to not die. for one theres a person in richmond who can rework it for performance and fail safe it, and i always know that my father has secrets about these failomatics and he knows how to work them to where it wont die. so really all i need is time, and alittle money.

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I'm pretty sure the FS is more welcoming to boost than the KL. 2-3 psi is nothing...

It's definitely possible to add a turbo to get better gas mileage. It increases the volumetric efficiency with proper tuning of course. The side affect of boost is your foot mashing the pedal for power.

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/turboflow.html

What it really comes down to is cost. Does it make sense to spend $1k to get 2 mpg? You almost have to fill your car up 250 times to break even.

To mention a few things with the fuel mileage tips, it is common to bump up the pressure on the tire. Be aware that tires do have a limit and most likely going beyond the manufacturers specs will cause your tires to wear incorrectly. You may get a couple of mpg, but now you have to spend $600 on tires. Sure doesn't seem worth it to me.

This has been accomplished before though, on an automatic even. NDM was able to find the old thread: http://www.mazda626.net/topic/32161-2000-turbo-626-sedan-is-coming/

It appears all of XoX1de's pictures were deleted as well as the videos. Should still have some decent information though.

Here is a thread that talks about modding the ATX: http://www.mazda626.net/topic/19982-can-the-atx-be-your-friend/

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I'm pretty sure the FS is more welcoming to boost than the KL. 2-3 psi is nothing...

All I've ever heard on PT is how much the KL's like boost.. Even though the MSP came from the factory turbo, it still wasn't any good. :P

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The FS has a lower compression ratio which should help. The KL is safe to boost up to 5-6 psi stock from my memory, though this was based off of the KLG4. One key issue are the fuel injectors.

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It's all in the tune, baby!

Semi-related, but those new Mazda SKYACTIVE n/a gasoline engines will have a 14:1 comp ratio outside the US and a 13:1 so that the complainers can still run 87.

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Yeah, the sky series is awesome. 14:1 for gasoline and 14:1 for diesel. Sounds like they are using the exact same engine.

But, you said it's outside of the US? Engine swap will take care of that I guess. Or just throw a 16X in there which you can buy from Mazdaspeed at the moment. They at least list it...

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i do have a question if i were to get turbo around 200 dollars would it break apart like some people say or will it be able to handle 2-3 psi? and what i plan to do is get a turbo and install in the spot where the airbox is and try to keep my ram air, would this affect the turbo in any way? especially since alot of heat is right under it.

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I've heard that the china chargers off of ebay aren't as bad as you would expect. Most guys that get the rebuild the seals before using them, though.

Um, if you're asking questions about keeping your ram air, I think you need to look up how a turbo works before seriously considering this project. A turbo will ram a lot more air into the chamber at 2-3 psi than a little ram air will.

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Also just to jump in with Prince Valorum, that question scares me a bit making me think you haven't done your research. It's not as easy as buying a turbo and hooking it up to your air intake. You also should know that you will have a lot of costs involved in order to do this properly.

Minimum:

-Turbo

-Down pipe + gasket

-Exhaust reworked

-charge piping

-intercooler

-braided oil line and fittings

-possibly ? braided water lines for turbo cooling

-Map unit/Piggyback ECU

-Heat shield would be wise

-air intake (connects to stock air box)

-Oil return hose and oil pan fitting

-all the other miscellaneous stuff pressure lines, couplers, clamps, and hoses

-fuel pressure regulator

-Blow-off valve

Chances are even if you build the cheapest turbo setup with your own welding/forging knowledge possible you won't go below the $900.00 mark. Its more realistic for this all to cost to fall between $1,300-$2,000. Which is why i recommended pretty much everything but doing a turbo if you want better mileage. Nobody goes through all that work just to gain 2-3mpg, you can do it with a fraction of the money if you read through my recommendations.

Also keep in mind FS-DE has premade ebay crappy china parts kits, that are rumored to have GARBAGE fitment, you could always grab one of those for around 700.00 bucks, throw the turbo they give you into the garbage, buy a new quality one for 300-400 and then pay probably another 500 to get the exhaust reworked. Even then your talking $1,600 so you might as well build it piece by piece and get a quality setup, thats functional.

Just my 2 cents

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Thank god mine was just a swap..cost me less than $100 to go turbo.

Besides the huge cost of materials to turbo the I4, the only thing I'm curious about, is how you expect to get 2-3psi?

Most wastegates start at 5-7psi, some even 10.. unless you screw with the wastegate or sumthing, you make have to START at 5 or 7psi.

Without sounding like an A-hole, please read up on turbo charging, there's a lot of fun things you can learn, its a vast, vast world.

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I've heard that the china chargers off of ebay aren't as bad as you would expect. Most guys that get the rebuild the seals before using them, though.

Um, if you're asking questions about keeping your ram air, I think you need to look up how a turbo works before seriously considering this project. A turbo will ram a lot more air into the chamber at 2-3 psi than a little ram air will.

yea i decided that the ram air wont be the best, and the setup i want is like the one i saw on a 87 mustang 2.3T, it didnt have a port going to the exhaust and relied on the car in motion to work, but i found a godspeed on amazon for 169.99 http://www.amazon.com/Godspeed-Internal-Wastegate-Charger-Universal/dp/B004AMNAD8 and im gonna use that as the low boost monster.

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Alright, I'm not sure what you are getting at (car in motion?), but lets check out the below diagram.

img-320328-1-turbo_schematic.gif

On the compressor side (cold) is where all your air comes in. This is your new "intake". I'm not sure the needs in terms of volume, but that depends on the size of the turbo.

On the turbine side (hot) is where it attaches to your exhaust and is also fed from the engine's exhaust in order to turn the turbine (turbo manifold).

Those are the basics. Sometimes people will vent the wastegate straight into the atmosphere, but the right way is to go into your downpipe.

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Alright, I'm not sure what you are getting at (car in motion?), but lets check out the below diagram.

img-320348-1-turbo_schematic.gif

On the compressor side (cold) is where all your air comes in. This is your new "intake". I'm not sure the needs in terms of volume, but that depends on the size of the turbo.

On the turbine side (hot) is where it attaches to your exhaust and is also fed from the engine's exhaust in order to turn the turbine (turbo manifold).

Those are the basics. Sometimes people will vent the wastegate straight into the atmosphere, but the right way is to go into your downpipe.

yea i know how that works what i meant was they had it hooked up to the intake not the exhaust and they relied on the car going at high speeds along with some other factors to make the turbo work. it was a road course car, and the turbo only really worked on a straight away.

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You must be mistaken because that won't work. What you are suggesting is that the intake goes to the turbine side and then goes out the "exhaust", in that case it would be going to the intake. The air doesn't get compressed at all and the turbo is pointless.

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The intake and exhaust air will spool the turbo. Not sure you thought that one through. Car in motion isn't going to have any effect other than cooling down the incoming air a bit. Cars that look like that have that kind of setup are usually positioned in a way that might appear that way, but it's just placing the turbo in an easy to access area. Usually they are piped right onto the exhaust header because that's the shortest distance from exhaust gas and keeping those super hot headers in a manageable bundle. You don't want those hot ass pipes stretching a couple feet away in the engine bay making other things hotter in the process. Yeah I would suggest doing some more research on the subject. I was all about trying to put a turbo on my I4 years ago but then I learned... and now the plan is to do a KL31 swap which is the right way to get better performance.

You know that old movie the Christmas story where everyone tells Ralphie "You'll shoot your eye out" and then he actually does it. It's kind of like that. You will eventually blow your FS by putting a turbo on it. You can do it and feel like yes I've done it! Then in real short order you'll blow your engine and be a sad panda. The only other 626 I've seen with my own eyes in real life that had a turbo was sitting in a junkyard without a head. Want better performance... swap in a V6. When all is said and done it will probably cost you close to the same amount as all the parts needed for a competent turbo setup and will yield better HP gains and longevity.

Don't let me stop you though. If you only want to go low boost for a little extra kick you might be able to run it like that for quite a while but you will get tempted to boost it up. The KLDE V6 is a much more appetizing option for the money in my opinion and going one further the KLZE (KL31) which will do at least 160hp.

Now if you don't care about your car go for it and boost it, have fun, and be happy. I'm not against experimentation or having fun in the slightest. As long as you know what you are getting into, know what you are doing, and know your options.

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He won't blow up the FS on 2-3 psi unless there are other factors, such as oil starvation, pre-damaged engine internals, or something along those lines. The guys that blow up MSP's the most are the guys that get a bunch of boltons and don't do anything to tune the motor. They're all "liek oh em gee guis I maid 200 whp on stawk FS-DET wit sum boldons, ets sooper awoosome, pulled a viepr las nite!!!"

The boltons do make more power, but it's by leaning out the motor on the stock ECU, which on an FS, basically spells "short lived fun."

I think bobtheo should just turbo his and show us how it's done.

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He won't blow up the FS on 2-3 psi unless there are other factors, such as oil starvation, pre-damaged engine internals, or something along those lines. The guys that blow up MSP's the most are the guys that get a bunch of boltons and don't do anything to tune the motor. They're all "liek oh em gee guis I maid 200 whp on stawk FS-DET wit sum boldons, ets sooper awoosome, pulled a viepr las nite!!!"

The boltons do make more power, but it's by leaning out the motor on the stock ECU, which on an FS, basically spells "short lived fun."

I think bobtheo should just turbo his and show us how it's done.

i plan all this to be started in the winter, i mean i know what i am doing, as far as how it is setup, how it works and the tuning process. and yes i know my setups, i helped a guy with a turbo on a go kart racing motor (10 seconds on the 1/4 mile, blew up in two runs, the motor not the turbo). and the guys who keep saying that the transmission will blow up because of the power and the heat, that is a half true statement i mean has anyone ever thought of making a air dam under the transmission unit or installing a fan on the pan of the transmission that would take away alot of the heat? but anyways im not stupid i just sound like it.

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and the guys who keep saying that the transmission will blow up because of the power and the heat, that is a half true statement i mean has anyone ever thought of making a air dam under the transmission unit or installing a fan on the pan of the transmission that would take away alot of the heat? but anyways im not stupid i just sound like it.

Yes, it's recommended to install an axillary trans cooler to extend the life of the auto even on stock power. Ox1de blew up the auto on his turbo 2.0, but he knew it would blow. He put a manual in, then. Talk to DJDevon about his, he's already had his trans rebuilt and it's acting up again. If you're going to go to the trouble of installing turbo setup, why not just put in a manual, too? You'll get better mileage to boot, and a much more fun car to drive.

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