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itsamecameron

Klde Vs Klg4 Vs Klze

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well there are 3 different cranks we have found in the different KL's here in the states. a 99 milly we tore down had a in between crank that was slightly lighter then the oldero nes. but not as light as the klg4. the klg4 is missing the entire center counter weight. like its just not there. so it add's up to alot of weight. the 99 milly crank ont he other hand had the center counter weight, but all the counterweights had been lightened or were slightly smaller. instead of being so blocky. if that makes any sense.

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i personally dunno. ive never ran G4 heads. ive done ported stock DE's, and ZE heads. i wouldnt mind a full G4 to play with for my new 626 though. lol

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hey guys. Im new here but i have a mazda milleni 2.5L. Ive been searching for info on building or improving my underpowered KL. And i thank you you guys a trillion times over for this thread.

I also just wanted to add some info i got from Mazda247.com from the user KaleoXtreme so props to him:

The Millenia 2.5 is actually a hybrid KL. It does have the ZE heads and intake manifold. However, it does not have the ZE cams. Everything else is like a normal DE

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^

not quite accurate. only the 95 millenia's had the square port ZE heads. and not even all of them that year did. all other years are normal DE oval port heads. you are correct they all have DE cams though. and also the millenia intake manifold is square port. but is not a ZE manifold. they look quite different. the millenia has a very spicific curved neck. (similar to the K8 in the mx3) ill be using a milly mani on the 626 once i pull it off myself along with port matched pheno spacers

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^

not quite accurate. only the 95 millenia's had the square port ZE heads. and not even all of them that year did. all other years are normal DE oval port heads. you are correct they all have DE cams though. and also the millenia intake manifold is square port. but is not a ZE manifold. they look quite different. the millenia has a very spicific curved neck. (similar to the K8 in the mx3) ill be using a milly mani on the 626 once i pull it off myself along with port matched pheno spacers

I don't know where you got this information; I owned a '98 with square runners, and every Millenia [from '95 on up] I've seen in the junkyard has had square port intake ports.

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im just posting what ive found from all the milly's ive pulled, and check probetalk and mx6.com for reference also. im not posting new to the world info here. they have been saying the same thing for years. i did find what was listed as a 96 milly like 2 years ago that had the ZE heads, and i do have the motor, but everyone on the other forums said someone must have swapped the motor at some point. but there's been at least another 4-5 milly's that had DE heads ive passed on that have came into the yard so far. so its def not 95 and up that has them.

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^

not quite accurate. only the 95 millenia's had the square port ZE heads. and not even all of them that year did. all other years are normal DE oval port heads. you are correct they all have DE cams though. and also the millenia intake manifold is square port. but is not a ZE manifold. they look quite different. the millenia has a very spicific curved neck. (similar to the K8 in the mx3) ill be using a milly mani on the 626 once i pull it off myself along with port matched pheno spacers

I don't know where you got this information; I owned a '98 with square runners, and every Millenia [from '95 on up] I've seen in the junkyard has had square port intake ports.

Actually he is correct. i found a guide to portmatch the head. The guide is in the forum i moderate, not promoting it but it has pictures of the heads and everything so i dont want to clutter this thread up. He owns a Xedos, the european millenia. here is the link.

http://forums.mazdaworld.org/147-technical-guides/73740-head-portmatching-guide-kl-2-5-a.html

When i did my VCGs not that long ago they looked that that also but i never paid attention to the IM holes.

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im just posting what ive found from all the milly's ive pulled, and check probetalk and mx6.com for reference also. im not posting new to the world info here. they have been saying the same thing for years. i did find what was listed as a 96 milly like 2 years ago that had the ZE heads, and i do have the motor, but everyone on the other forums said someone must have swapped the motor at some point. but there's been at least another 4-5 milly's that had DE heads ive passed on that have came into the yard so far. so its def not 95 and up that has them.

I'm not saying you're lying, I'm merely stating that one can't make generalizations, as clearly there's conflicting information out there. I've actually OWNED a '98 Millenia, with yes, the original motor in it, and yes, it had square ports. I eventually junked the car when the transmission wouldn't go past 2nd gear, and sold the motor to a guy who put it in his Milly.

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I'm not saying you're lying, I'm merely stating that one can't make generalizations, as clearly there's conflicting information out there. I've actually OWNED a '98 Millenia, with yes, the original motor in it, and yes, it had square ports. I eventually junked the car when the transmission wouldn't go past 2nd gear, and sold the motor to a guy who put it in his Milly.

Both the intake mani and the intake ports on the head were square? I think on that page the guy linked it said one was square and one was oval, which makes even less sense.. That would be some serious corner-cutting if Mazda did that in Europe...

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i dont think even mazda had an idea what they were doing 100%. lol. my new 97 626 i just bought had a millenia 24v DOHC front valve cover on it. but asked the original owner, and he said it was the stock valve cover that came on the car when he bought it new. everything ive seen and been told was those were only used on the millenia's. well, i guess at least some 97 626's got them also.

the worst part is i already sourced, and bought one of the millenia ones too. so now i have an extra.

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^

u do realize he's in norway right? there millenia's dont even have the same motor as ours. hell, most of them came with a KF 2.0. lol

i know he's in norway... hence me saying he owns a Xedos. and i moderate that site so i know what engine he has... which is the 2.5 KL-DE, same as in my milly. Also he wrote "guide for portmaching the heads on a KL 2,5". Xedosman, the guy who did the portmatching guide, is the one of the many who helps me with my millenia problems.

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his 2.5 is not the same as your 2.5 is what i meant. :) 1st thing you will notice is he doesnt have a EGR. they also have different compression pistons then your US millenia. we refer to what he has, as a curved neck ZE. its better then what we have, but not as nice as a straight neck ZE since the curved neck ZE's still have the same cam's as we do here in the states.

there are a tons of different versions of each motor. its not as clear cut as KLDE and KLZE. im a moderator on probetalk, as well as here. and have been on probetalk since 2003 or so.

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Yeah things go differently depending on what region you are talking about, almost enough to drive one mad.... US vs Jap vs Euro is a whole nother kinda beast......

As far as the question about ZE cams in a G4.. I have no solid answer for ya, the main issue I can see is the fact that the G4 uses a coil pack which is fine and dandy, but the ZE uses a standard disty and has a gear on the camshafts them selves to run the disty. I have no clue what the ramifications would be, maybe you can just remove the end part of said cam (the gear is on the camshaft closest to the front of the car as far as I know)........ all I know is it goes through the metal on the motor itself to connect with the disty on the outside of the motor, not sure if there is a part that connects the two that can simply be omitted or what. I guess the best way we can figure it out is for some brave soul to try it out, if it works the gains would be good, if not well all that work to tear apart the top of the motor would be in vein. If I had ZE cams id check it out when I do my vcgs and timing belt since ill be in there any way, but they are expensive and I need to save up a good chunk of change since my car is currently missing a very important pedal, and lets face it thats number one on my list for sure.

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I think the other problem with using the ZE cams in the G4 is the fact that the ZE has hydraulic lifters and the G4 has solid ones. I heard that was a problem for the 4 cylinder guys, like me, so hopefully I'm correct in assuming it still applies here.

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speaking of G4's. i grabbed a G4 intake manifold today at the yard. they only charged me $39 for it. and i grabbed the rails, and injectors in my tool box. gonna order up some pheno spacer's, and swap that on asap. also ordered up a OEM mazdaspeed oil cap to go on with it for some bling.

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if you toss them in a otherwise stock DE, you will actually lose power. it runs rich already. so any larger of an injector is just gonna waste fuel, and make less power

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speaking of G4's. i grabbed a G4 intake manifold today at the yard. they only charged me $39 for it. and i grabbed the rails, and injectors in my tool box. gonna order up some pheno spacer's, and swap that on asap. also ordered up a OEM mazdaspeed oil cap to go on with it for some bling.

This thread is a little confusing...does the G4 mate up to the motor found in the 97 without having to port match?

I ask because I'm looking at a 97 626 in a little bit.

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speaking of G4's. i grabbed a G4 intake manifold today at the yard. they only charged me $39 for it. and i grabbed the rails, and injectors in my tool box. gonna order up some pheno spacer's, and swap that on asap. also ordered up a OEM mazdaspeed oil cap to go on with it for some bling.

This thread is a little confusing...does the G4 mate up to the motor found in the 97 without having to port match?

I ask because I'm looking at a 97 626 in a little bit.

You don't HAVE to port match, even if you have square runners and oval ports. It will run OK.

However, I honestly don't know if the KLG4 has square ports or not, as the '99 I owned had a ZE in it. Although I'd seen the stock motor laying on a crate, I didn't examine the heads very carefully. However, it's not uncommon for folks to slap a ZE IM onto a stock DE, resulting in a port mismatch.

The only motors I know for a fact came with square ports are the straight-neck KL-ZE, and the Millenia [on at least some year models]. The others I'd have to research more carefully.

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The KLG4 and the KLDE both have oval intake runners. The only ones that are square are on the KLZE and apparently some of the the 2.5s in the Millenia have them too ^^ ..... I cant confirm this though, so my advice would be if you are gonna get a KLG4 intake manifold make sure its from a 98 or up 626 then you know for sure what you are getting. Also just an fyi the intake manifold swap is one of those "im almost out of basic things to do" mods, its not gonna be super amazing like everyone makes it out to be. Yeah it will give you a little more power, but start off basic with intake exhaust headers ect, then move to the intake manifold and IM TB spacers, and port and polish stuff. If you keep everything stock but the IM it would be a waste.... and yes I know for a fact the G4 has oval runners, Just replaced VCGs a little while ago on my G4. Oh and this is a duh but make sure you clean the inside of the IM, seafoam or carb cleaner works great.

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Another way to confirm....look up the intake manifold gaskets for the year/model you are interested in, and see what the picture shows you.

Hint: When you look at the gaskets for a '95 Millenia, they are square. These are what I ordered and used when I built my KL-ZE.

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